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I don't mind stirring up hate but I rather it be in the form of controversy, actual conversation. Leave a comment you nerds lol. Anyways, I'll just say that there are tons of games that are both easy to learn and play, while still having extremely high skill ceilings such as League of Legends, Overwatch, and Smash Bros. If you are such a fanatic that you can't see why your genre is dying, then don't cry when not even haters make videos on your games anymore. Sit in your 3 man lobbies.
People like hard games competitive games with lots to learn. Look at CSGO. Personally I think the games just don't look that appealing in terms of art style and graphics. They try to hard to appeal to old school gamers and it just doesn't work. Maybe something more like halo's art style but just in a hardcore arena game? Or call of duty when everyone had exosuits and such. Something that appeals to younger players but everyone can agree looks cool.
Me with a friend's in discord: you want to try quake champions?
Dude x: Nah is not free
Me: is free
Dude x: nah… Why don't you play something more actual?
Me: dude this is a new entry.
Dude x: yes but it looks to… old
Me:?
Dude y: ey guys you wanna play CSGO?
All dudes: yeah!!!
It's better being dead instead of full of hackers
you know this isn't battlefield so you can train against bots right? also quake champions is crap, play UT2k4 or UT3. you are way faster, have more gamemodes, more mutators, and a great time even if you're playing against bots.
I don't even play arena shooters and I still disliked this video. Good job.
another reason is, that NO ONE LIKES TO BE R%%ED NON STOP.
"ooh, your skill level is not high enough" – SHUT UP.
videogames supposed to be fun. and when you get destroyed all the time on spawns, with negative kdr, non stop, by some sweaty no-life try-hard who wasted 10-15+ years on a game – it's not even close to being fun.
yes, maybe some nostalgic m%r%ns like me would stay in the game and try to grind it despite getting only negative emotions from this, but other people don't want to do that.
here's what happens to new players – they log in, they get r%%ed, and they leave forever. and they're RIGHT to do so.
look at steam stats of QC – more 96% of all players didn't even finish 100 matches (!), and 100 matches is nothing, you can't even learn the basics in those 100 matches, if you're a new guy.
and they keep leaving, and the only players who are left are just same 400 people for the whole planet.
even cs-1 has thousand time more people than that.
people want to have fun.
and they choose something like team fortress 2, with tons of cheaters and bots, instead of OG arena shooters.
Arena shooters are for alt right nazi bigots
Asking for arena shooters to not be arena shooters doesn't help the genre, it basically changes the genre to something else. Quake Champions isn't even a good arena shooter. It didn't fail due to a lack of interest. It failed cause it wasn't Quake and had issues with netcode and terrible monetization. Lawbreakers flopped cause it was another hero shooter in an oversaturated market. Unreal Tournament received little promotion then was abandoned to develop Fortnite. Just like how they abandoned the Save the World part of Fortnite. The genre will always be niche, but that doesn't mean it can't be successful. Escape from Tarkov has a huge learning curve, is unbalanced, unfinished, and unfair, but is one of the most popular games on Twitch. The new player experience is terrible, but the game is a huge hit. With the right promotion and a good developer, this genre could do just fine. It has nothing to do with not being accessible and casual friendly.
The skill ceiling is extremely high. The issue you have found is that it's a level playing field when you spawn, there is no rock paper scissors elements to make some people easy to win for you. The problem is you, that's it.
Bro I love arena shooters I'm bewrlt 1.55 sec in the video and man I love your content keep it G
You actually make a lot of really solid points, but you probably lost all the AFPS fans with item timers. You gotta understand it's kinda like telling a chess player what's the next best move to make. It's not a completely dumb idea though. Besides the fact that it would make a difference to beginners, I think it would even actually be interesting for veterans. Here's why:
Say you play deathmatch with item timers for example, you instantly get an environment that simulates scenarios where every player times items by heart. Deathmatch has always been the ultimate practice field for weird and awkward situations, you learn to deal with multiple opponents and you get a really tough sense for situational awareness that way. It takes much more time to get the same experience in just regular duel.
The problem with deathmatch though is that a lot of the time players just run and gun with complete disregard for items and it gets boringly easy really fast if you're the only one who rocks the items. This is why deathmatch has such bad reputation as a serious game mode.
The problem competitive players have with item timers could be solved by just having a filter that disables/enables them for servers. So you can still play deathmatch, tdm, duel etc without them and obviously t should be turned off for competitive play. DUH. I don't see why we couldn't have that. It still wouldn't solve problems like "how to make it more watchable for new audience" though, because having them enabled in spect mode and tournament VODs is already a thing.
I disagree with nearly everything in this video, however I do agree that arena fps need more content. The reason arena shooters don't survive is because it isn't a genre that caters to bad/new players like you. There isn't a reason for them to keep playing because it's the same game over and over with a skill cap that's too high for the ordinary casual player.
I'm sorry, pal. YOU don't get to dictate what is and isn't considered an arena shooter based off of YOUR own arbitrary definition with zero evidence and justification behind it. Is Halo an arena shooter JUST because there are pickups? So arena shooters are arena shooters because…. pickups…
I'm sorry, but you lost me there as your fundamental argument is completely flawed.
Basically "me too lazy game too hard me play game where no quick think need and be become speed"
I don't completely disagree with your opinion, but I don't like how this video kinda devolved into a review of Quake Champions
I agree with you saying titanfall and others aren't arena shooters. But what about DOOMs multiplayer, it has weapon classes but everything else about it seems arena. What do you think?
YouTube 101: Don't insult your viewers. Especially when the majority of people who will find this video are incredibly open-minded. Not only are you wrong, but looking at your pinned comment and your introduction, you clearly have a tragically massive ego. Yes, I will gladly unsubscribe, thanks for the idea!
qc have gamemode where only quad, armor and health is collectable and you have weapons from start. Good to train survival capabilities.
9:06 thats why warsow or reflex called quake clones, if you want new weapons check out xonotic.
Competitive side of afps always be unpopular like fighting games.
Why everyone is hating on this guy? Let's be honest, if arena shooters doesn't change, they will die. We need some AAA dev making a new arena shooter that is polished, with well marketing and with some improvements as you say in the video. Maybe a multiplayer mode in Doom Eternal or the next Doom Game made by Id Software… What do you think?
They need skill. That's why u don't play them xD
these games arent esport games for sure, and no new players are playing because they are always getting smacked by people who have experience and are good at the game. and the game instructions don't help because they don't cover everything. kinda like csgo, but csgo is much more a team based game which means groups of friends can all play together, there is not very much teamwork in arena shooters.
don’t do a video if you don’t know what you’re saying, at least study it… and we’re not responsible for your PC not running the game smoothly, mine does at 160+ FPS. Also yes; no casual players whatsoever. I’m very bad and I’m always at 7th or 8th place. I enjoy it every single time. SIMPLY LOOK AT YOUR DISLIKE RATE. FUCK OFF.
I enjoyed this
Arena are slowly coming back there games like Diabotical and splitgate being the new arena shooter.
Have you tried doom or splitgate.
Your arguments are really bad you make it sound you don't want these games to be an arena shooter your making it sound like you want these games to be a one of those garbage mobbashooters.
Production value has nothing to do with the death of arena shooters maybe 10 years ago AAA gaming was polished now it's way more janky (think about r6siedge and battlefield4 at launch) and actually less polished than some of these games, they just have the money and time to fix their game after the launch
We need a free-to-play arena shooter with the level of graphics and polish as Overwatch
100% agree the genre is dead and it's difficult for new players as they usually lack tutorials. However, u say they…don't run solidly? don't have good sound graphics? don't have customizable options for casual play. U've never played Xonotic have u? Also, I quite like the compression to smash bros about how minimalistic graphics but the smooth performance and solid gameplay can still be competitive and fun, Check out Warfork on steam.
quake champions runs pretty well I don't know what type of weak ass PC you got
I do fairly decent in quake and I have no clue when anything is going to spawn
Saying they aren't competitive is just flat out inaccurate. I'm generally opposed to watering down games for casual players. This I think is the risk all competive games are at risk of. If we lower the skill ceiling much lower we might as well not bother with E sports all together. There are reasons why in LoL for example some good Champs in solo cue see little play at the higher competition levels. This is because the actual play style needs to change to remine competive. When you play actual physical sports you don't get the privilege of adding in ways to make the game easier for you. You either get better or you do something else. In the gaming community there is a large number of players who feel that games should be easy and accessible to everyone. This is a privilege that is a barrier to personal growth as a player. This is why to pros high ranking players are generally considered bad. These are players who are mechanically sound but lack higher ability to actually play at the competitive level. While a high ranking player can predict usual patterns they lack the ability to adapt when those normal patterns change. This is why stupid troll picks work in solo cue but not competitively. Arena shooters generally lack any form of training wheels persay. They lack the ability to cheese your way into winning and usually the ability to really true the team to carry you on a bad day. You need to have better predictions, game sense, and mechanical abilities. This is probably what drives casual players away from higher skilled games like quake. They would rather pick up any game and play while not working on any form of improvement. There is a distinctly different attitude in the gaming community than there was 6 years ago. Almost anyone can pick up any game and have a reasonable time with it. This is a common theme I've been seeing in casual players they blame the good players for gatekeeping when maybe in reality the phrase "just don't suck" has validity. When games like quake pass the good players will move on to the next highest competition game and then the process starts all over where the weaker players eventually get pushed out and cry for handicaps. This is of no fault of the game or good players it is the difference between improving and accepting mediocrity.
The nature of a good arena shooter means that the better play will ALWAYS beat the worse player (even if its on a day to day basis). What this means is new or bad players SHOULD NOT BE WINING GAMES. They should expect to be crushed. The divide between players comes in the form of gamers who just play games for fun and to enjoy their free time with a fun experience, and those who play games to struggle and improve. Duel is the epitome of feeding that predatory nature, where you are literally hunting down other people and smiting them with skill. It is precisely the inaccessibility of these games that makes them so much more satisfying to improve at, because it nothing was there to try and help you git gud. You did it. YOU changed your thinking. YOU improved your aim. YOUR timing got better. Most people are weak and lazy when it comes to games and that is why arena shooters will never be mainstream.
Your arguments are mostly bad faith and based on things that don't improve gameplay or make it a better game.
Your basic argument is:
"Make it not a arena shooter."
You clearly don't understand arena FPS games.
Every competitive game has its goal and the player who reaches it wins.
In CSGO you have to plant the bomb or defuse the bomb (or kill the whole team), win 16 rounds and you win. Why isn't there a tutorial about strats or how to throw a smoke to cut enemies vision? why isn't there a tutorial about how economy in the game works? Why isn't there a guide about spray patterns, strafing or bunny hopping? Because these things seperate good players from bad players.
In rocket league you have to score more goals than your opponent in limited time to win. You don't have to learn how to do aerial hits or sealing jump resets to win a game but these things seperate good players from bad players/noobs.
In fighting games you just have to kill your opponent several times. How you do this? Well… It's up to you. You can just jab or hadouken all day and you can win.
In RTS (starcraft 2 for example) you need to kill enemy's base. You can just rush with your workers. Is it the best strat? no… but it works even on the highest level.
Do you see the patten of competitive games?
Everyone has different playstyle and the more knowledge you have the more successful you are. It requires dedication and many hours to get better.
I hate that devs simplify games nowadays and make them "casual friendly"…
There is a lot of RNG in Battle royal games where you have different tiers of gear or card games where you draw a random card or random loot in MMO games. RNG is making games more casual. Also team based games do. You can be an absolute trash and win a League of legends match because your team is good, same with any other game like Overwatch or Apex.
Quake is a test of skill… You are better, you win… Your enemy is better, you lose. Simple as that.
You are complaining about complexity of a game and you are the reason why games are being simplified. You are a type of person that thinks fighting games are bad because they require dedication, knowledge and skill. Tekken 7 is the first tekken where they added frame data and training. Do you think it helps casual players? They don't even know what frame data is… and they don't care.
For casuals quake is a shooting game. In my eyes it's a mix of RTS game and tactical shooter in arena environment.
This is you: "I did more damage than my opponent and he still kills me… This game is trash."
This is a player that cares about self improvement: "He killed me and i did more damage, what has he done that he had more HP than me? Mega health and Heavy armor gives a lot of stack maybe i should take control over these items so he can't get them. What is the timing of these items?"
Quake isn't hard to learn… It's hard to master and it takes a lot of time. Same with CSGO, Diabotical, Rainbow six siege, Starcraft, Rocket league and fighting games in general…
DON'T CASUALIZE GAMES!! If you are trash you deserve to lose. With every lose you learn and improve.
https://youtu.be/owpHC4Pg550
Arena FPS are too hard for him. There saved you 16 min.
People be disliking when he spitting fax
I'm waiting for a AAA Unreal Tournament 99 as well. The movement, character size, map size, speed, was just so perfect. The big issue was surely the skill gap between players and that there was no matchmaking.
The Comments are more sensible than this video
qc… good sound?
A bunch of things mentioned here are just plain wrong.
In most modes in Quake Champions there's timers for item pick ups so you can see when they are gonna spawn. It even announces when a Quad/Protection is about to spawn. Just in duel and 2v2 where they get removed and you have to actually remember the timing. Those are the competative modes, of course it's gonna challenge the player and add this layer of depth to the gameplay. New players can stick to other modes and learn the game with the timers giving them an easier time.
Quake has plenty of fun party game modes. Especially in Champions where they added Arcade modes where everyone plays the same champ or rocket damage is increased by 300 % or whatever. And even stuff like TDM or Instagib are basically fun modes. And don't forget about Freeze Tag or CTF.
i just heared dat playing quake also increas ur vision and focus lol dis is amazing hahaha
I have to politely disagree with your video. Of course these games aren’t for everyone, they’re the most skill based FPS games out there. Changing the formula to appeal to casual kinda goes against what arena shooters are all about. They’re about showcasing the highest raw skill a player has.
When you add classes with all the quirks of Battle Royal/Cod based games, you take away the charm and balance of a truly fair, bare bones experience. Simply saying they are too hard for casuals is kinda not that good of an arguement for why they’re “not good”.
They require patience, mastering movement, knowing map knowledge, knowing where pick ups, ETC. they are fun if you actually take the time to learn them. The reason QC isn’t doing well is due to a number of things including going against what made Quake…Quake.
All I heard from this video was it’s not for casuals and therefore it s not fun. It’s a genre that takes gaming back to its prime years. We’re not “asleep” and need to wake up lol. We just don’t find fun in artificial balancing, slow movement, and casual catered gameplay. They’re for the people that wanna be ninjas. Going balls to the wall fast, split second thinking, and insane firefights that play like a game of chess.
I understand why some don’t like it, it’s not for everyone. But once you master them, I promise you they are the most fun, blindingly fast, adrenaline pumping games you could play
And sorry but these games are def competitive. Watch any arena shooter tournament. It’s games that players can also excel at in numerous ways and therefore can have many different play styles that can all work. We don’t need a dumbed down triple AAA arena shooter. It’s just a thing of the past. If you try to dumb down an arena shooter, it’s no longer an arena shooter. It just becomes Halo/COD with abstract maps.
There's one thing wrong in this video about Lawbreakers: bosskey never advertised it as arena shooter. I was a big fan of the game when it was alive and read/watched almost all the promotion materials like official videos, interviews etc. I don't know how the false information get to you but just like people used to believe it's a OW knockoff, you can't change one's mind when they decide to believe the false information.
I do refuse to believe arenaFPS are dead 😅 but this is an excellent video with solid points on what arena games need. I hadn't even thought of item timers being a possible newcomer tool. There are some other points that stood out to me and I will consider incorporating them into my own game.
i definitely agree. Having afps games that are easy to access for new players and have a AAA level of polish would help. Most afps players that disliked the video probably don't want the already established quake formula(maybe even UT) to disappear. But they wont disappear and most of the quake like afps games and their competitive players are going to exist for decades like they have been doing for so long. In my opinion the future of afps games isn't going to have any huge losses (mostly because nothing big is really happening and most of the big stuff goes away as if it didn't exist in the first place) and really all that afps games need is more content. Fighting games are very similar when it comes to the "structure" of the community and one of the main difference between fighting games and afps is that they have way more polished content.
Here's the thing about arena fps games. These games are not your typical everyday modern military shooter like Siege, CoD, and so on. it's not a game for everyone and as soon as you jump into the game whether its deathmatch or 1v1, you're already dogmeat going against god-tier players right off the bat and guess what, it's all kind of like a battle royale because any weapons you got before you get killed, you can lose them and then respawn with a weak weapon all over again which will set you back horrendously unless you absolutely know your way around the map and get to resources quickly. movement is pretty big in Quake and as the games don't explain how to strafe-jump around the level either.
as far as Quake: Champions go? I'd rather play Overwatch or Paladins because that game is a fucking meme with it's technical issues and other things like balance with the champions or weapons. Also, Halo isn't really a full-fledged arena shooter since the movement isn't quite up there with unreal or Quake.
mainstreamed games like again, Overwatch, League and smash as you mentioned, they do offer a learning curve for newcomers and I think that's how these games can keep the players around. I just don't see Arena shooters making a comeback anytime soon or later.